tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post6195069032210457046..comments2023-11-07T23:58:28.619-09:00Comments on Pray to the Moon: Poetry for the Esbat: Long Night's Moon & Thusly, the Mother's MoonMoma Faunahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13656419605056782629noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post-67643910524782159782013-12-19T14:08:59.702-09:002013-12-19T14:08:59.702-09:00"I think the Hellenic way of anthropomorphizi..."I think the Hellenic way of anthropomorphizing -everything- might be pretty difficult for an animist..." Not for this animist. In fact, to some extent, the anthropomorphizing of *everything* is part of what attracts me to the Hellenic writings. I cannot speak for other animists, however & I am inclined to think that my sense of what has "being" (for lack of a better term) falls on the broadest end of the spectrum. <br /><br />"... other dryads were immortal and able to flee to inhabit other natural phenomena is the thing that seems to make it the most distinct from traditional animism..." I am not convinced this falls outside the boundaries of some traditional animist belief systems. It certainly does not fall outside of mine (which is decidedly not "traditional" b/c I refuse to go try to be someone I am not vis-a-vis cultural misappropriation). <br /><br />"Hellenic beliefs about death (pre-Neoplatonism) seem to be the strongest evidence against the idea that there was a big difference between the two for them. They were intensely physical and intensely pragmatic." This sounds very much like my own beliefs. I would like to have you elaborate more when you can, or perhaps we can save it for when we next meet. <br /><br />"...ancestor veneration was not really a part of Hellenic religion, while it is integral to many other forms of polytheism and animism." As you know, from previous discussions, I am not particularly invested in ancestor veneration. This is probably b/c my sense of "spirits" does not really include a sense of individual identity (or, at least lasting identity) the way we humans generally understand it. I also do not recognize a continuity of "self" beyond our own reproductive code & the records left by our material culture. (This applies to beings that die, btw, not necessarily other beings.) This is really complicated to explain, so I will save anything more in depth for a person-to-person conversation. But, I suppose the short answer might be that when folks make offerings or make other efforts to venerate the ancestors, I am not convinced they hear us or are even around to receive them. Now, if the point is to remember for our own selves, as a family, a community, etc., that is another story. <br /><br />So much food for thought! Thank you for the comments & perspective! I look forward to having an opportunity to discuss this further when next we meet. :)Moma Faunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13656419605056782629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post-45175884455168077792013-12-19T14:03:29.397-09:002013-12-19T14:03:29.397-09:00My friend, you bring up a whole host of very impor...My friend, you bring up a whole host of very important points. The "Alaskan problem" being among one of the most pernicious little thorns in the sides of any folks attempting to strictly follow any of the ancient or "neo" calendars. Like many things, I mostly gave up on that even before I moved to Alaska. That could be because I was really thinking I wanted to be all-things-Celtic whilst living in the American Southwest. Though that may also have been because I was always ignoring Kokopelli to doggedly chase Cernunnos. Uh. Duh. No wonder it never worked very well for me. Solar/Lunar/Astronomical events, changing seasons (when they actually happen, as opposed to Bealtaine in the snow) are workable when we recalculate them to our location. I also think it is fair to do as you are doing & stick to the old calendar, recognizing that it is in observance of the happenings in a sacred place, even if it isn't your own. I say, do what makes sense, but don't do it if you have to pretend it makes sense.<br /><br />"My understanding is that Selene was considered to be the Moon Herself theologically... Artemis who is "lunar" and sympathetic to Selene, but a distinctly different entity...(and) Phoebe as well, whom the evidence strongly suggest was an earlier understanding of the Moon Herself, who by the classical period was reclassified as a "titaness" and thus one of the "old gods"." This concept makes perfect sense to me & I *think* I can explain. I am not sure how other traditional animists or any of the handful of "new animists" perceive things, so this is only my own understanding of things -- just a preface so that I do not appear to be speaking for animists in general. I think most/any/all of us have multiple spirits. Some of these are attached to our material persons & remain attached -- the essence of our physical substance, as it were. But I suspect that there is also one or more spiritual "essence(s)" associated with our physical body in various ways. I also think there are those that are not associated with anything physical at all. For the Moon Herself to have a myriad of "spirit selves," "etheric identities," "souls," whatever you may choose to call them, isn't an odd concept to me. The Moon Herself as that luminescent orb careening through space has many identities, including the lunar goddesses who are both their own sovereign, individual identities, yet are also part of Her. It's one of those "mysteries" which I attempt to comprehend as well as my wee human mind can handle. <br /><br />"...when your measure of time is a concept like "eternity", instead of the length of a human life, these differences start to make a lot of sense." Absolutely. I suppose this is one reason I find myself increasingly attracted to this particular theological angle. (One which, interestingly, I had never had much interest in pursuing in the past. Funny how we sometimes find ourselves in the last possible place we ever thought we might wind up.)<br />Moma Faunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13656419605056782629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post-77265054576456151072013-12-19T09:13:20.067-09:002013-12-19T09:13:20.067-09:00Great post! Something I've encountered recentl...Great post! Something I've encountered recently with Alaska and its extreme sunlight/lack of sunlight, is how it is impossible to construct a Kemetic festival calendar from this location (and Kemetic calendar computation requires exact physical coordinates). Which, while on the one hand this is not too surprising in and off itself, (Alaska nothing like Egypt? I don't believe it!) it is still in many ways a uniquely "Alaskan problem" as most places in the more "middle parts" of the planet are able to still see the rising of Sopdet/Sirius in late summer from their coordinates. Therefore, most modern Kemetics do seem to calculate their festival calendars in this localized way, that they can actually observe as opposed to picking an Egyptian location. For myself, out of necessity, I've decided to base my festivals off of the coordinates of Bast's ancient cult center of Tell Basta, and will re-calculate when I move to more southerly climes, so the family and I can actually observe this astronomical event each year. <br /><br />My understanding is that Selene was considered to be the Moon Herself theologically, at least during the period that the Orphic hymns were being recorded. And this is definitely how modern Hellenics understand Her, and are quick to distinguish Her from Artemis who is "lunar" and sympathetic to Selene, but a distinctly different entity. But I think its important not to forget Phoebe as well, whom the evidence strongly suggest was an earlier understanding of the Moon Herself, who by the classical period was reclassified as a "titaness" and thus one of the "old gods". This lack of apparent intellectual need for clear distinctions and taxonomies, between such concepts as "old" and "new", and "this" and "that" has definitely been the most extreme difference theological difference I have encountered between Kemeticism and Hellenism, btw. But when your measure of time is a concept like "eternity", instead of the length of a human life, these differences start to make a lot of sense. <br /><br />I think the Hellenic way of anthropomorphizing -everything- might be pretty difficult for an animist. Dryads are a great example of this - because I think that is the clearest example of what Hellenic "animism" looks like. The dryad, from a Hellenic way of thinking -is- the tree, or at least the spiritual reality of the tree that is worthy of veneration. The fact that only the hamadryads were mortal like humans and demigods and die with their trees, and that other dryads were immortal and able to flee to inhabit other natural phenomena is the thing that seems to make it the most distinct from traditional animism (in addition to the anthropomorphism of trees as human females). I think for many modern pagans this may also imply a larger degree of spirit/body dualism then I think was actually present in Hellenic thought. Hellenic beliefs about death (pre-Neoplatonism) seem to be the strongest evidence against the idea that there was a big difference between the two for them. They were intensely physical and intensely pragmatic. Dead is dead, and while the spirit may remain it is about as worthless to a person as their decayed flesh. Which, also explains why ancestor veneration was not really a part of Hellenic religion, while it is integral to many other forms of polytheism and animism. The ancient Hellenes, as far as I can tell, don't seem to have had any problems with seeing a world through a blatantly human lens. Which has its shortcomings to be sure, but also a high degree of intellectual honesty about subjectivity that for me, is hard not to admire.Dorothynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post-9781352560729965172013-12-17T08:02:05.851-09:002013-12-17T08:02:05.851-09:00"...we need darkness..." This is the cru..."...we need darkness..." This is the crux of the matter for me. <br /><br />As diurnal mammals, we need the balance of day & night, but boy, we forget that whether we are Sun-loving, night-fearing, light-up-every-square-inch-of-the city & blot out the stars humans, or if we swing into deep Gothdom, shunning the light & hiding out on our parent's basements until the Sun sets. I think, *as humans,* the balance is critical -- you can see the adverse effects of an unbalanced day/night cycle up in Alaska. Wow. We all get weird. Or depressed. Or manic. Or all of the above. In the thick of the Summer, when the Sun refuses to set, Oh! how I long for the quiet still & darkness of the night. Instead, it's people grocery shopping at 3 a.m. when it still looks like 3 p.m. And, of course, the inverse applies in the Winter, when I take my child to school in the dark & the bus drops him off in twilight. <br /><br />But you pointed out that we associate the light with positive thinking & optimism. This is a peculiar thing. I find I look forward to night time & darkness for a variety of reasons. I tend to personally associate the evening with food, wine, company, winding-down, togetherness & perhaps some time to read. I associate nighttime with my bed, sleep, dreaming, the Moon, stars, quiet... & sometimes, albeit rarely anymore, the thrumming excitement of nightlife, dancing, dining, etc. Where is the negativity in this? Yet humans, humans sure shun the darkness & the night.<br /><br />Of course, Nyx herself is the source of a mixed bag of godforms & to me, that makes sense. The darkness (Erebus) & the night (Nyx) to a great degree represent the All & the Nothing, the primordial Source. Her children run the gamut of personae -- from Aether (light/air/life) & Hemera (day) to the bloodthirsty Keres (violent deaths), from the Oneiroi (dreams) to Eleos (mercy) to Oizys (suffering) to Momos (censure, criticism) & on & on. One of the primary lessons in my devotional project was seeing the balance in the darkness & the necessity thereof. <br /><br />We cannot fully experience one without the other to teach us the difference. Why else do we fear the dystopian tales where everyone is always "happy" & there is no struggle, strife or suffering? We need that contrast in experience & sensations. Like you mentioned, there is no contour without shadow... & many of those shadows can only achieve their grandeur & lushness in direct relationship to the light.Moma Faunahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13656419605056782629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5807299091001611550.post-36953685700386606242013-12-17T05:50:20.765-09:002013-12-17T05:50:20.765-09:00I love winter, I love dark nights! GlobalWarming n...I love winter, I love dark nights! GlobalWarming needs to shake up the Neo-Wheel. Yay it snowed in Vermont, that's normal, yay yay! I am allergic to sun and overstimulated by light. I say I seek endarkenment. 99% of the Universe is dark. There is no balance, dark wins hands down as the norm. LOL. Plus it has such racist overtones.... And is immersed in monotheist duality of good and evil. As an artist if I only used light, the page would have no contours, no shadows, no shape! No 3D form. So celebrate Nyx! Celebrate darkness! This culture of fake positive thinking emotional fascism and denial of reality shuns the dark. Those who make friends with the dark are the strongest allies in this time of sudden changes, the end of both the environment and economic growth. Things have been taken out of humans hands. Darkness needs us and we need darkness....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com